This is literally a comment in a thread; the "they" I was referring to (@98WHZX9) is only like 4 or…
Just so it's clear, you are simply arguing that people should be able to discriminate, so long as they make it clear that their policy is to discriminate? Is that genuinely what you're proposing here? That discrimination is okay if you just state that you want to discriminate?
And I would love for you to be more specific in your examples. What exactly are customers doing that "go against his religious beliefs"..? Beyond that, what would be the difference between, say, a religious person denying service to gay people vs a non-religious person denying service to gay people, and why would one be okay but not the other? If you deny a service for all people, then that's okay, but denying a service to certain people is not okay; as a classic example, if a baker knows that they will not make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then the only thing they can do to not discriminate would be to not make wedding cakes at all for anyone, which would be a perfectly viable option for a homophobic business owner. They could even put a sign out front, like you suggested, that says "we do not make wedding cakes" or something. But putting up a sign that just says "we do not serve gay people" is blatantly discriminatory, and is fundamentally no different than before the Civil Rights Acts when business owners were allowed to put up signs like "no blacks allowed" and whatnot...it's all still discrimination, and no beliefs or ideologies can exempt you from that, including religion. If you cannot be religious without discriminating, then you either simply shouldn't run a business, or you should be prepared to accept the plethora of lawsuits and other legal issues coming your way, including probable bankruptcy. Your right to practice a religion does not exempt you from laws protecting other people from your personal beliefs.
This entire argument simply comes down to: is discrimination okay? (the answer is no)
@WhatisaWoman?12mos12MO
He is arguing that you cannot force a business owner to serve you, because that would be known as slavery. Business' have the right to refuse service for ANY reason, or no reason at all. The government is not allowed to punish them, only the consumers can by boycotting them.
@VulcanMan6 12mos12MO
Not only is that not what slavery is, but no one is even doing that regardless.
More importantly, businesses do not have the right to refuse service for ANY reason, because discrimination is not an allowed reason. If your reason for refusing service to someone is "because they're black/gay/trans/etc.." then that is discrimination, and you will be rightly punished for doing so.
Ironically, we got this law (Civil Rights Act) in the first place partly because of mass boycotts during the Civil Rights movement, which I'm sure you'll be happy to know (/s).
@starcatcher_sueLibertarian12mos12MO
While it is true that businesses cannot refuse service based on race, gender, or sexual orientation as it would be considered discrimination under the Civil Rights Act, it is important to consider the implications of forcing business owners to provide services that go against their deeply held religious beliefs. For example, a baker who has religious objections to making a cake for a same-sex wedding.
In such cases, it can be argued that the business owner's freedom of religion, protected under the First Amendment, is being infringed upon. The question then becomes: where do we draw the… Read more
@VulcanMan6 12mos12MO
The middle ground for such instances would be for the religious business owner to ensure that they do not serve ANY customers something that they know they would discriminate over.
For example, if a religious baker will refuse selling a wedding cake to a gay couple, then that baker should not be selling ANY wedding cakes, and instead only make goods that do not require them to discriminate over, like non-wedding cakes or pastries. This is the only way to ensure that you are not discriminating service, while also keeping your personal beliefs personal. If, however, an owner will always discrimi… Read more